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F-35 Lightning II in Europa (Joint Strike Fighter)

Wehrtechnik & Rüstung, Gemeinsame Außen- und Sicherheitspolitik
theoderich
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Re: F-35 Lightning II in Europa (Joint Strike Fighter)

Beitrag von theoderich » 03. Jul 2010, 18:35

Die Meldung ist zwar schon etwas älter, aber der Vollständigkeit halber:

Lockheed in Talks to Reduce Price of F-35 Planes by 20% (17. Juni 2010)

WASHINGTON — Lockheed Martin is negotiating to cut the price for the next group of its new F-35 fighter planes to at least 20 percent less than Pentagon officials projected last fall, Robert J. Stevens, the chief executive, said Thursday.

The company, which has been under pressure because of costly delays, is likely to build those planes under a contract with a fixed price, Mr. Stevens said. He said Lockheed could earn bonuses for meeting production milestones.


Mr. Stevens said on Thursday that the $382 billion estimate over 25 years “shows the potential” if nothing changed in the program. But, he said, “we’re determined to beat the government cost estimate.”

The Pentagon has already ordered 31 of the planes. The contract now being negotiated would cover 32 more.

Not counting the research and development costs, the Pentagon recently projected that the 2,457 planes could cost an average of $92.4 million before adjusting for inflation, compared with an estimate of $50 million in 2002.

Mr. Stevens said that if the Pentagon kept buying the planes at the planned pace, Lockheed believed it could bring the cost down, by 2014 to 2015, to a level comparable to updated and fully loaded versions of older fighters. That would mean reducing the price of each F-35 to $65 million or less.



Die britische Regierung bezeichnet die F-35 als das Programm, das beim Sparkurs am wahrscheinlichsten gekürzt werden wird.

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Cyclop
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Re: F-35 Lightning II in Europa (Joint Strike Fighter)

Beitrag von Cyclop » 18. Jul 2010, 21:36

Canada to buy 65 F-35 jet fighters in C$9 bln deal

OTTAWA (Reuters) - Canada will buy 65 new fighter jets from Lockheed Martin Corp for C$9 billion ($8.6 billion), one of the biggest arms deals in the nation's history, Defense Minister Peter MacKay said on Friday.
The first of the new generation Joint Strike Fighters will be delivered in 2016. The F-35s are designed to replace Canada's CF-18s, which are scheduled to reach the end of their working lives in about 2020.
MacKay brushed off criticism from opposition legislators who say the planes are too expensive and who question why Lockheed Martin received a sole-source contract.
"This is the best aircraft we can provide our men and women in uniform ... This is one of the largest defense procurement projects in Canadian history," MacKay told a news conference.
The C$9 billion also covers weapons, training and equipment. MacKay said media reports of a separate C$7 billion 20-year maintenance deal were wrong and said an agreement would be concluded once the jets started going into production.(...)

9 Mrd. kanadische Dollar sind 6,58 Mrd. Euro

Prometheus
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Re: F-35 Lightning II in Europa (Joint Strike Fighter)

Beitrag von Prometheus » 18. Jul 2010, 23:03

The C$9 billion also covers weapons, training and equipment.


da sieht man dann wieder das problem. wieviel kostet etwas wirklich?
was genau ist dabei?
wenn kanadische firmen auch was dazuliefern zahlens dafür an den kanadischen staar steuern usw.

COP
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Re: F-35 Lightning II in Europa (Joint Strike Fighter)

Beitrag von COP » 19. Jul 2010, 10:27

Kommt mir schon wenig vor, wenn man bedenkt, dass die LightningII schon mit bis zu 150 Mio US$ Systempreis gehandelt wurde. Jetzt würde die F-35 ungefähr im Bereich des Eurofighters liegen. Oder vielleicht ist das ein kleines Zuckerl für den Erstkunden?

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Cyclop
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Re: F-35 Lightning II in Europa (Joint Strike Fighter)

Beitrag von Cyclop » 19. Jul 2010, 13:14

Wie bereits geschrieben - Vergleiche sind sehr schwer. Leistungen brauchen nur geringfügig variieren um zu völlig anderen Kosten zu kommen. Canada hat bereits bei der Entwicklung mitfinanziert. Ich gehe davon aus, dass alle bereits vertraglich zugesagten Zahlungen zur Entwicklung nicht in dieser Summe enthalten sind. Von Gegengeschäften, Servicekosten und Ersatzteilen auch ist keine Rede. "Equipment" wird wohl die erforderliche Bodenausrüstung meinen. Ist ein Simulator enthalten? Wieviel Ausbildung ist enthalten? Welche Waffen? usw. usw.
Hast Du kein Vergleichsanbot für die exakt gleiche Ausschreibung kann man jeden Vergleich vergessen. Selbst dann ist es schwer, wie wir wissen.

Prometheus
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Re: F-35 Lightning II in Europa (Joint Strike Fighter)

Beitrag von Prometheus » 20. Jul 2010, 20:19

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2010/07/farn10-watch-videos-from-f-35.html

Lockmart antwortet auf die Frage bezüglich der tatsache dass 9 Mrd. Canadische Dollar für 65 einen Preis von 131 millinoen Us dollar ausmachen und anderes...

theoderich
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Re: F-35 Lightning II in Europa (Joint Strike Fighter)

Beitrag von theoderich » 24. Jul 2010, 17:57

FARNBOROUGH: STOVL F-35s face pressure on new flight-test delays

The aircraft named BF-1 famously completed the first vertical landing on 18 March, the most vivid display of a resurgent flight-test programme that is now running ahead of schedule by about 10%, according to programme officials.

Since that milestone event, however, BF-1 has landed vertically only once more. The aircraft required an extended period of maintenance to fix mechanical problems unrelated to the STOVL propulsion capability, says Tom Burbage, Lockheed Martin vice-president.

Minor glitches, such as malfunctioning actuators on the 13 doors that open and close on STOVL variants, caused the recent maintenance period, Burbage says.

The aircraft was due to fly again on 20 July on a checkout flight that programme officials hope restores BF-1's sortie rate.

As the first weight-optimised aircraft produced in Lockheed's F-35 factory, BF-1 has historically faced greater reliability challenges than other flight test aircraft.


There is little room for more delays in the STOVL programme. By December 2012, the US Marine Corps plans to declare initial operational capability for the first squadron of 10 F-35Bs.

On the other hand, there is nothing magic about that date either, Trautman says. The USMC's AV-8B Harriers and F/A-18 Hornets will remain in service for more than a decade.



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Cyclop
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Re: F-35 Lightning II in Europa (Joint Strike Fighter)

Beitrag von Cyclop » 09. Aug 2010, 13:30

JSF Fighter Jet Order Now Unlikely
(Source: DutchNews; issued Aug. 6, 2010)

VVD leader and likely new prime minister Mark Rutte is opposed to the purchase of a number of JSF fighter jets in the next cabinet period, the Volkskrant reports on Friday, quoting sources in The Hague.
The sources say Rutte is in favour of buying a second test aircraft in order to guarantee the participation of Dutch firms in the development and production process. Rutte made the comments during talks on forming a coalition with the Labour party, which failed last month, the paper says.
The current caretaker government delayed taking a decision on the purchase of dozens of JSF aircraft until 2012 because of opposition from Labour, which was part of the coalition.
The paper says Rutte is well aware that ordering JSF aircraft at a cost of EUR 6 billion would be very sensitive at a time of cuts in education, healthcare and social security spending. He is committed to finding austerity measures to generate EUR 18bn in savings between now and 2015.
The PVV is also opposed to spending money on the JSF and the CDA is only committed to buying a second test aircraft. The VVD hopes to form a new government with the CDA and PVV.

(EDITOR’S NOTE: Dutch political parties have been negotiating to form a government coalition since mid-June. The elections did not produce a clear majority for either left or right, and 24 of the 150 seats were won by the PVV of Geert Wilders.
The current estimate is that 63 MPs are pro-JSF (VVD, CDA, CU, SGP) and 87 are anti-JSF (LaborPvdA; SocialistSP, GreenLeftGL, D66, PvdD and Geert Wilders PVV).
Mark Rutte, the prospective Prime Minister, announced that the VVD will delay a decision on the purchase of the Joint Strike Fighter until the next Cabinet period, i.e. after the next elections in 2014.)

Eine niederländische Beschaffung des JSF nach 2014 dürfte Lockheed nicht unrecht sein. Spart ihnen Strafzahlungen wegen Lieferverzug.

theoderich
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Re: F-35 Lightning II in Europa (Joint Strike Fighter)

Beitrag von theoderich » 08. Sep 2010, 17:31

Am 25. Juli 2010 wurde ein Mock-up der kanadischen Version der F-35 vorgestellt:

Bild


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Doppeladler
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Re: F-35 Lightning II in Europa (Joint Strike Fighter)

Beitrag von Doppeladler » 26. Sep 2010, 19:15

Our annual report on the F-16 Replacement Project for the year 2009 (Letter to Parliament 26 488, n° 232) reported that the last official estimate of the Average Procurement Unit Cost (APUC) was US$ 69.2 million (March 2007; at 2002 prices) and the expectation of D-CAPE’s was an estimated APUC of US$ 80 to 95 million.
As mentioned in our letter dated July 9, 2010 the latest estimate of the APUC at this moment for the F-35 is US$ 92.4 million (at 2002 prices), which means a considerable increase over the 2007 estimate.

Interessant ist nicht nur die Kostenentwicklung, sondern auch die Preisbasis 2002 - da fehlen 8 Jahre Preisanpassung!!! Reaktion der Niederländer:
In this context, the Ministry of Defence, in anticipation of the reassessment of the project planning, has adjusted the purchase process so that the delivery of production aircraft will start in 2016 instead of 2014. As stated in the Defence budget proposals for 2011, a substantial part of the estimated Dutch (F-16 Replacement) project expenditure was shifted to subsequent years.

Nach dem niederländischen Analysten Johan Boeder
Since 2002, a total of 85 F-35As was planned to replace the Dutch air force’s current F-16s, to be purchased in two batches (57 and 28 aircraft). At this moment purchase of the second batch seems unlikely, based at the latest price information.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... -rise.html

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Re: F-35 Lightning II in Europa (Joint Strike Fighter)

Beitrag von Doppeladler » 30. Sep 2010, 14:10

Norwegen:
The new combat aircraft for the Air Force is two years overdue. The delivery of the US-built F-35 will therefore not start until 2018. Today's F-16 aircraft have will benefit from life extension, and the choice of a new fighter base will also be postponed.
In an article published by [the Stavanger] Aftenbladet on Saturday 25 September, and reproduced on the Ministry of Defence website, Minister of Defense Grete Faremo (AP) said that the US-led development program for the F-35 fighter will be restructured and extended.
“The conclusion is that it is in Norway’s interest to allow for the extension of development on the American side by delaying our decision-making process for both the purchase of the combat aircraft and the choice of their base,” Faremo said.
[...]
The initial delivery of the aircraft will be postponed to 2018, but the military, according to Faremo, will acquire aircraft for training in 2016. “By acquiring up to four training aircraft in 2016, we will still allow initiation of the necessary training of technical and operational personnel," said Faremo.
The United States will bear all expenses related to the delay, according Faremo.

theoderich
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Re: F-35 Lightning II in Europa (Joint Strike Fighter)

Beitrag von theoderich » 08. Okt 2010, 07:51

New Dutch government to retain JSF commitment (7. Oktober 2010)

The Netherlands' new coalition government is expected to maintain the nation's commitment to the test phase of Lockheed Martin's F-35 programme, although a decision on whether the type will replace its Lockheed F-16s will not be made for several more years.



O.T.:

Israel kauft in den USA Stealth-Kampfflugzeuge

Israel hat in den USA 20 Kampfjets des Typs F-35 gekauft, die vom Radar nicht erfasst werden und bis in den Iran fliegen können. Eine entsprechende Vereinbarung unterzeichneten beide Länder gestern im israelischen Konsulat in New York.

Der Generaldirektor im israelischen Verteidigungsministerium, Ehud Shani, erklärte, die Kampfjets veränderten die Machtbalance im Nahen Osten. Israel sei damit besser in der Lage, die eigenen Grenzen zu verteidigen.


Das Geschäft mit den Kampfjets hat einen Wert von fast 2,75 Mrd. Dollar (1,97 Mrd. Euro) . Sie sollen zwischen 2015 und 2017 geliefert werden. Israel hat dabei eine Option auf 55 weitere Kampfflugzeuge



Bild


theoderich
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Re: F-35 Lightning II in Europa (Joint Strike Fighter)

Beitrag von theoderich » 19. Okt 2010, 18:33

Großbritannien: Wechsel von F-35B zu F-35C

Cameron also slammed the previous Labour government’s selection of the F-35B, and says the UK intends to switch its selection to the JSF’s “more capable, less expensive and longer-range” carrier variant (F-35C pictured below). The decision will also require one of the Royal Navy’s two Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carriers to be equipped with catapult launch equipment.



theoderich
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Re: F-35 Lightning II in Europa (Joint Strike Fighter)

Beitrag von theoderich » 03. Nov 2010, 14:04

Die F-35 wird noch teurer:

Lockheed's F-35 faces second restructuring this year

One more year of development and an extra $5 billion may be added on top of previous extensions, according to the preliminary findings of a major F-35 review leaked by the Center for Defense Information (CDI), a well-connected think-tank.

If the Defense Acquisition Board (DAB), a group of Pentagon decision-makers on major contracts, adopts the findings of the technical baseline review (TBR) on 22 November, the programme will face a third major restructuring - and the second this year.


According to the CDI, development of the conventional take-off and landing F-35A and carrier-based F-35C will be extended by one year to 2017. The in-service date for the short take-off and vertical landing F-35B will be delayed at least two years to 2014, it says.

Those changes would increase total development costs since the programme began in 2001 to as much as $55 billion, a 57% increase. The length of the development phase would be extended by five years overall.


Last year, the JPO predicted the average procurement unit cost of 2,443 F-35s purchased by the Department of Defense would be $104 million. Gates's restructuring in February, which slowed the production ramp by 122 aircraft over the next five years, raised that estimate to $112 million.

But NAVAIR's analysts under Venlet decided the programme was in even worse shape, predicting average costs will rise to $128.5 million per aircraft.


In late September, Lockheed announced striking an agreement in principle with the DoD on an at least $5 billion deal to buy 31 F-35s in the fourth lot of low-rate initial production. The agreement appeared to end an extended round of difficult negotiations, as Gates demanded that Lockheed convert the contract from a cost-plus to fixed-price structure.

Six weeks after the agreement was announced, however, the contract remains unsigned.



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Cyclop
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Re: F-35 Lightning II in Europa (Joint Strike Fighter)

Beitrag von Cyclop » 04. Nov 2010, 11:23

F-35A und F-35C wird nun bis 2017 entwickelt. Das sind 7 JAHRE!!! Da kann man ja schon bald einen neuen Jet entwickeln. Die Lücke zwischen F-16 und F-35 wird immer größer. Zulauf für die ersten Europäer vor 2020 ist nun ziemlich unrealistisch, da die USAF bis dahin vermutlich einige Maschinen stilllegen muss und dringend Ersatz benötigt. Die Navy kann wenigstens auf neue F/A-18E/F bauen.

Antworten
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