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F-35 Lightning II in Europa (Joint Strike Fighter)

Wehrtechnik & Rüstung, Gemeinsame Außen- und Sicherheitspolitik
asdf
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Re: F-35 Lightning II in Europa (Joint Strike Fighter)

Beitrag von asdf » 11. Apr 2010, 08:27

theoderich hat geschrieben:
... Schwartz rejected buying the latest "fourth-generation-plus" versions of the F-15 and F-16 despite a new two-year slip and nearly 90% projected cost overrun for the F-35. "To be sure, we do not think it prudent to utilise precious procurement dollars for anything but fifth-generation aircraft." But Schwartz added an important caveat, that the USAF still has not determined whether the service life extension programme would be technically or financially viable. ...

... The USAF has terminated Lockheed F-22 production with 186 aircraft in inventory after 2011, leaving only plans to acquire 1,763 F-35s over the next 30 years to modernise its fighter fleet. Meanwhile, the 2010 Quadrennial Defense Review set the tactical aircraft requirement at about 2,000 fighters. ...

... "When these F-16s and F-15s are no longer able to fly and the F-35s still has problems because somebody hasn't figured it out, you're going to have air guard units that are not going to have planes," says Representative Frank LoBiondo, who represents a district that includes an F-16 base, during a 24 March hearing.





Die können auch gerne Eurofighter kaufen ;-) !!!!!!!!!!

Prometheus
Beiträge: 334
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Re: F-35 Lightning II in Europa (Joint Strike Fighter)

Beitrag von Prometheus » 12. Apr 2010, 14:10

Ein Typhoon kostet mit allem umgefähr 130 Millionen.

die f-35 liegt auch schon bei 138 millionen.
Wenns so weitergeht wird die noch mehr kosten als die Raptor.

Die preis-schere schliesst sich...

theoderich
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Re: F-35 Lightning II in Europa (Joint Strike Fighter)

Beitrag von theoderich » 13. Apr 2010, 09:43

Afghan role hits Dutch

    POLITICAL TURMOIL THREATENS JOINT STRIKE FIGHTER ACQUISITION

    Fresh doubt has been cast on the Netherlands' planned purchase of 85 Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighters following the collapse of its government.

    The search for a multirole replacement for the Lockheed F-16 was launched in 1999, and the defence ministry in 2001 signed a memorandum of understanding to participate in the system development and demonstration phase of the F-35 project.

    Its choice was based on six main mission requirements: both offensive and defensive counter-air; air-interdiction; the suppression/destruction of enemy air defences; close air support; and non-traditional intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance.

    Further MoUs were signed in 2006 to participate in production, sustainment and follow-on development of the JSF, and to collaborate with Italy and Norway in supporting future operations of the type. The defence ministry in 2008 signed up for involvement in initial operational test and evaluation of the F-35, with its commitment to require the purchase of two test aircraft.

    Faced with pressure from the opposition, the government agreed to re-evaluate its choice, seeking fresh information on the Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon, Lockheed Advanced F-16 and Saab Gripen NG. The JSF was again selected, and undersecretary of defence Jack de Vries in April 2009 signed for the first conventional take-off and landing test F-35A.

    A decision on ordering a second has been postponed until after the election of a new government on 9 June, with a full production commitment not due until 2012.

    Even if a right-wing government takes office, the F-35's prospects may not be as bright as before. A recent advisory board report concluded that the air force may need only 50 of the aircraft: sufficient for just two operational squadrons and one training unit.

    A deal could be dropped entirely in the event of a left-wing majority, however, with the JSF having been described as too expensive and beyond the operational requirements of the Royal Netherlands Air Force. Such a move would prompt a new contest to replace the F-16.


theoderich
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Re: F-35 Lightning II in Europa (Joint Strike Fighter)

Beitrag von theoderich » 14. Apr 2010, 15:29

PICTURE: Lockheed reveals new colours for F-35 AF-1

Bild

Lockheed Martin’s first weight-optimised F-35A Joint Strike Fighter will soon be returned to flight test, having undergone final finishing and painting at the company’s Fort Worth site in Texas.

Pictured after receiving its robot-applied stealth coatings and a hand-painted fin flash on its vertical stabilizers, AF-1 will soon be ferried to Edwards AFB in California to support US Air Force testing of the F-35 Lightning II.



theoderich
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Re: F-35 Lightning II in Europa (Joint Strike Fighter)

Beitrag von theoderich » 17. Apr 2010, 14:27

Das hätte Lockheed wohl gern: (Direkter Link von der LM-Homepage zum Lexington Institute.)

Dieses "Lexington Institute" macht auf mich den Eindruck einer Lobbying-Organisation. Allein wenn man sich die Meldungen auf der Homepage ansieht:

Lexington Institute


Da ist z.B. die Rede von "ernsthaftem Schaden" den die europäische Luftfahrtindustrie den USA zugefügt hätten, weil sie Förderungen durch die Herstellerländer erhielten. Allein die Argumentation ist einfach zum k... . Rein zufällig, ist es bei den US-Flugzeugherstellern nicht anders!

Study: European Aircraft Subsidies Have Harmed America

However, the study has relevance to that controversy because it describes how, at a time when America was spending billions of dollars each year to defend Europe against communist aggression, four European governments established a subsidized consortium called Airbus to undermine the role of U.S. companies in the civil-aircraft market. European governments thus have engaged for 40 years in the kind of unfair trade practices they now wrongly ascribe to Washington.

None of the airliners that Airbus has developed and marketed would ever have been built without launch aid from European governments. But because that aid was provided to half a dozen different classes of transports, Airbus was able to field a complete family of airliners much faster than any purely commercial enterprise could have, and price each plane more aggressively than otherwise would have been prudent.



16. April 2010

US lawmakers push for back-up plans after F-35 cost increases

As cost estimates for the Lockheed Martin F-35 continue rising, some US lawmakers are pushing military officials to increase spending on fourth-generation fighters as a back-up.

Senator Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut says he considers the F-35 a "really extraordinary aircraft", but is concerned about the military's projected tactical aircraft shortfalls.

"There will certainly be pressure to sustain the fourth generation and improvement of aircraft because the fifth generation is coming on more slowly and more expensively than we hoped for," Lieberman told a Senate hearing on the tactical aircraft budget on 13 April.

The US Navy has projected a 243-aircraft shortfall by 2017 and the US Air Force estimates a fighter gap of 800 aircraft after 2020.


Meanwhile, navy and air force officials are starting to consider back-up strategies to compensate for the F-35 delays acknowledged so far. The USN is working on plans to upgrade parts of its Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet fleet with 9,000h and 10,000h service life. Meanwhile, the USAF has started assessing a new structural upgrade for the its Lockheed F-16 Block 40/42 and 50/52 fleets.

It remains clear that officials from both services still consider the F-35 their most important budget priority for tactical aviation.



Prometheus
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Re: F-35 Lightning II in Europa (Joint Strike Fighter)

Beitrag von Prometheus » 20. Mai 2010, 10:19

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2010/05/benchmark-contest-f-35-cost-vs.html#comments

Benchmark contest: F-35 cost vs F-22 cost

Figuring out what the F-35 will cost is a matter of great dispute. A 20% spread exists, for instance, between Lockheed Martin's projections and the Cost Assessment and Program Evaluation (CAPE).

But there is no argument about what the F-35 has cost so far. Every penny spent on the program since contract award in 2001 has been tracked and published in the selected acquisition reports.

So what are the taxpayers getting for their investment?

By the end of Fiscal 2011, if the Department of Defense's latest budget request is approved, the F-35 program will have received $67.9 billion since the October 2001 contract award.

For that investment, Lockheed's global supply chain will have a total of 101 production aircraft on contract, with between 28 to 58 production of those aircraft delivered.

I compared that amount to the F-22 program. By the end of Fiscal 2011, the DOD is budgeted to spend $66.7 billion, with 188 aircraft on contract and nearly that amount delivered.


To be fair, the F-35's $67.9 billion pays for non-recurring engineering on three variants, which includes 14 flight test aircraft.

But it's an interesting benchmark for a program such as the F-35, which has few peers of any relevance.
Zuletzt geändert von Prometheus am 29. Mai 2010, 19:59, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.

theoderich
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Re: F-35 Lightning II in Europa (Joint Strike Fighter)

Beitrag von theoderich » 24. Mai 2010, 17:50

Study Calls for Halt of UK Carrier/JSF Programme

A new report from leading independent think tank, Oxford Research Group (ORG), calls for the cancellation of the aircraft carrier project, the scaling-down of the Trident programme, and the establishment of an independent Defence Procurement Authority.





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Doppeladler
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Re: F-35 Lightning II in Europa (Joint Strike Fighter)

Beitrag von Doppeladler » 24. Mai 2010, 19:32

Dutch Parliament Votes to Cancel First JSF Aircraft

[...] The Dutch Parliament’s Lower House voted yesterday to cancel the order for the first F-35 Joint Strike Fighter aircraft, and to stop Dutch participation in the program’s Initial Operational Test and Evaluation phase.

It also voted to direct the defense ministry to begin anew the Request for Proposal and the complete evaluation of the F-16 replacement program, for which a final decision is due in 2012.

The basis for yesterday’s vote is that the price estimates provided by Lockheed Martin in response to the original Request for Information of 2002, and the Supplemental Request for Information of 2008, are unreliable, as confirmed by the late 2009 reports of the US Joint Estimate Team and US Government Accountability Office.
[...] It does not, however, mean that the Netherlands will necessarily pull out of the program, although that is the outcome favored by the Labour Party.
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... phase.html

theoderich
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Re: F-35 Lightning II in Europa (Joint Strike Fighter)

Beitrag von theoderich » 28. Mai 2010, 22:04

Lockheed waits on Dutch JSF decision

In the final debate of the current parliament before national elections to be conducted on 9 June, the Dutch Labour party announced its intention to withdraw from the programme's initial operational test and evaluation phase, and to return its one aircraft one order to Lockheed.

Labour party defence specialist Angelien Eijsink says the main reason for the decision is that "the price of the aircraft is still uncertain, and the project keeps on sliding on the agreed timescale".

Secretary of defence Eimert van Middelkoop indicated that in addition to a penalty charge of around €20 million ($24.5 million) for returning the one IOT&E aircraft already on order, the Netherlands would encounter extra costs of around €200 million to run a standalone test phase for the F-35 in the future.

By stepping out of the project, the Dutch state would also be writing off an investment of more than €800 million, and reduce the chances for its industry to participate in series production of the F-35, he cautions.

A majority of parliament voted to stop the project and ordered the defence secretary to do so. He has not executed this request, however, due to an earlier decision that the resigning government would not take any irreversible steps in its last days in power.

Parliament is now considering whether to recall all members from the election recess to force van Middelkoop to act on its orders.



Prometheus
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Re: F-35 Lightning II in Europa (Joint Strike Fighter)

Beitrag von Prometheus » 29. Mai 2010, 20:04

wie ich weiter oben schon geschreiben habe wird am ende des Fiskaljahres 2011 der JSF mehr kosten als die F-22.

Man sollte sich wirklich überlegen nicht doch mehr Raptors zu besorgen. Vorallem wenn die selbst mit Block 35 nicht soviel mehr kosten.
Interessant wird auch ob vieles was am anfang des programms gestrichen wurde und die Raptor hat dafür platz jemals eingebaut wird.

theoderich
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Re: F-35 Lightning II in Europa (Joint Strike Fighter)

Beitrag von theoderich » 03. Jun 2010, 11:56

US Department of Defense raises F-35 cost estimate to $382 billion

If the DoD buys all 2,457 jets planned until 2035, the average cost per aircraft rises to $92.4 million in 2002 values, or $133 million if adjusted for inflation each year up to 2035. This is roughly double the average cost across all three F-35 variants that the Pentagon projected in 2001.

But the DoD's mandatory review under the Nunn-McCurdy law determined that no cheaper options existed to meet the F-35 requirement, and that a major restructuring unveiled in February has created a new set of feasible cost and schedule targets.

However, Ashton Carter, undersecretary of defense for acquisition, technology and logistics, is concerned about Lockheed's ability to manage the programme.

In a 1 June letter to Republican congressman Ike Skelton, chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, Carter warns that Lockheed's failure to comply with the DoD's standards for managing vast projects is "disappointing and unacceptable".

The new flight-test schedule, which is extended by 13 months, includes "42 areas of concern" that can cause further delays if they are not fixed, Carter adds.

The galloping cost projections in the recertification report are likely to raise the most alarms. The $382 billion figure is nearly $54.2 billion higher than the DoD reported in February, which itself was about $30 billion more than previously forecast in 2007.



Vielleicht hätten die Europäer beim Anzeichen der ersten Kostensteigerung aus dem Programm aussteigen sollen. Ordentliche Flugzeuge kann man auch in der "Alten Welt" bauen: Einfach den "Eurofighter" (der obendrein wirklich gut ausgestattet wäre) und weiterhin den bewährten "Harrier". Naja ... im Nachhinein jammern bringt aber auch nichts.

Prometheus
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Re: F-35 Lightning II in Europa (Joint Strike Fighter)

Beitrag von Prometheus » 04. Jun 2010, 22:43

und weiterhin den bewährten "Harrier".


das witzige ist ja dass der JSF-B trotz allem mehr oder minder der flieger wird der der Harrier am anfang hätte werden sollen(minus Stealh) .

theoderich
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Re: F-35 Lightning II in Europa (Joint Strike Fighter)

Beitrag von theoderich » 07. Jun 2010, 17:53

U.S. Navy Version of Lockheed Martin F-35 Makes First Flight

Bild


theoderich
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Re: F-35 Lightning II in Europa (Joint Strike Fighter)

Beitrag von theoderich » 15. Jun 2010, 11:56

Man ist scheinbar genötigt mit guten Neuigkeiten aufzuwarten:

    Lockheed Martin F-35 Ground-Test Article Completes Testing Five Months Ahead Of Schedule

    Bild

    F-35 Lightning II program successfully completed F-35A conventional takeoff and landing (CTOL) full-scale static testing – with zero structural failures – five months ahead of schedule and in less than half the time of legacy programs.

    The test program was conducted on AG-1, an F-35A dedicated to validating the strength of the jet's airframe.

    During testing, the strength and stability of the aircraft structure were verified to 150 percent of design limits or 13.5 G's (force of gravity), with 174 critical load conditions, or pressures, applied to the airframe to evaluate its structural integrity. Testing was conducted predominantly at BAE Systems’ Structural & Dynamic Test Laboratory in Brough, England. The U.K. tests began in August 2009 and were accomplished in 295 days – a rate that exceeded the record-setting pace previously established by the F-35B short takeoff/vertical landing static test program.



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Cyclop
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Re: F-35 Lightning II in Europa (Joint Strike Fighter)

Beitrag von Cyclop » 15. Jun 2010, 14:34

Wobei das ja wirklich eine gute Nachricht ist:
Lockheed Martin F-35 STOVL Variant Flies Supersonic
(Source: Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company; issued June 14, 2010)

PATUXENT RIVER, Md. --- The Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter short takeoff/vertical landing (STOVL) variant flew faster than the speed of sound for the first time June 10, achieving a significant milestone. The aircraft accelerated to Mach 1.07 (727 miles per hour) on the first in a long series of planned supersonic flights.
"For the first time in military aviation history, supersonic, radar-evading stealth comes with short takeoff/vertical landing capability," said Bob Price, Lockheed Martin's F-35 U.S. Marine Corps program manager. "The supersonic F-35B can deploy from small ships and austere bases near front-line combat zones, greatly enhancing combat air support with higher sortie-generation rates." The F-35B will enter service for the Marines, the United Kingdom's Royal Air Force and Royal Navy, and the Italian Air Force and Navy.
The supersonic milestone was achieved on the 30th flight of the F-35B known as BF-2. U.S. Marine Corps pilot Lt. Col. Matt Kelly climbed to 30,000 feet and accelerated to Mach 1.07 in the off-shore supersonic test track near Naval Air Station Patuxent River. Future testing will gradually expand the flight envelope out to the aircraft's top speed of Mach 1.6, which the F-35 is designed to achieve with a full internal weapons load of more than 3,000 pounds.
All F-35s are designed to launch internal missiles at maximum supersonic speed, as well as launch internal guided bombs supersonically. During the flight, Kelly accomplished 21 unique test points, including several Integrated Test Blocks to validate roll, pitch, yaw and propulsion performance.
BF-2 is the third F-35 to achieve supersonic flight. Two F-35A conventional takeoff and landing variants also have broken the sound barrier.

Antworten
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